Table Talk (Guest Blogger: Michael Pollan)
I'm delighted to have this opportunity to engage with you about my new book, In Defense of Food. Anyone who's had a chance to read it--or even just glance at the cover--knows that the book is my attempt to help readers navigate what has become a treacherous food landscape, made especially confusing by the rise of something I call "nutritionism." "Nutritionism" is a highly reductive way of looking at food that presumes the nutrient is more important than the food and, because nutrients are invisible, we need experts to tell us how to eat. This supposedly more scientific way of eating is what I set out to debunk in the book, on the grounds that it not only destroys the pleasure of eating, but has actually done very little for our health, except quite possibly to make it worse. Why? Because the science of nutrition is still very sketchy, and because the food industry uses this sketchy science to make health claims for distinctly unhealthy foods. Heart-healthy whole-grain Cocoa Puffs?!?! You get the idea.
My premise is that science doesn't yet know enough to tell us how to eat. So who, or what, does? Not me or any other journalist, god knows. No, the best guide to how to eat is the guide we relied on for thousands of years before people know what an antioxidant or carbohydrate was, and that is Culture. Culture, when it comes to food, is of course a fancy word for your mom--through mothers, dietary wisdom, based on generations of trial and error and the gradual discover of what keeps people healthy and happy, has been passed down for thousands of years. So the last third of my book is an attempt to recapture some of this cultural wisdom before it completely disappears under the onslaught of food marketing and nutritionism.
I try to distill this cultural wisdom into a series of eating algorithms--mental tools for navigating the food landscape and eating well. Instead of talking about how to get your antioxidants or probiotics, my rules of thumb go more like this:
- Don't eat anything your great-grandmother wouldn't recognize as food.
- Avoid food products with more than five ingredients; with ingredients you can't pronounce.
- Don't eat anything that won't eventually rot.
- Shop the perimeter of the supermarket, where the food is least processed.
- Avoid food products that make health claims.
- Eat meals and eat them only at tables. (And no, a desk is not a table.)
- Eat only until you're 4/5 full. (An ancient Japanese injunction.)
- Pay more, eat less.
- Diversify your diet and eat wild foods when you can.
- Eat slowly, with other people whenever possible, and always with pleasure.
There are more, but this should give you some idea of how I approach the question of what and how to eat.
Since publishing the book last month, I've collected several more useful rules of thumb from readers and people I've met on my book tour. For example, someone told me her grandmother used to say, "The whiter the bread, the sooner you'll be dead." Another reader wrote that her grandfather used to say, at every meal, "I always like to leave the table a little bit hungry." This cultural rule against eating until stuffed seems to be widespread. Muslims have told me that the prophet Muhammad addressed the issue of appetite by advising we should supply the stomach one-third with food, one-third with drink, and leave one-third for "easy breathing."
A couple of others I've collected:
"If it arrives through the car window, it isn't food."
"Eat all the junk food you want--as long as you cook it yourself."
I'd like to invite you to share more such rules for eating with me and the others reading this blog. By collecting old rules and developing new ones in the same spirit, we can help wrest the culture of food back from the marketers and the scientists.
I look forward to your rules. I'm also happy to answer any other questions you have about eating, the food chain, and my books about the subject, both In Defense of Food and The Omnivore's Dilemma. I look forward to hearing from you. --Michael Pollan
Chris B. on February 13, 2008 at 10:30 AM
Do you have any thoughts on the nutritional validity of vegetarian and vegan diets? Is this really the best way to go or does a sensible about of meat benefit in the long run?
John Hold on February 13, 2008 at 12:33 PM
I am curious about the question of how lower income people are able to obtain this kind of diet. It seems that the people who need to hear this book most are the ones who will less likely read it. Is there a way to bring this message to the masses rather than the more elite people who are reading books by Mr. Pollan. I mean this as no disrespect to the author, by the way. This is something that society probably needs to deal with moreso than book authors.
I have read bits and pieces of this book and hope to learn how to eat better. Now I have the excuse of eating junk food as long as I am making it. Thank goodness. I am going home to bake some chocolate chip cookies tonight!
von on February 14, 2008 at 09:42 AM
I have recently read The China Study and was shocked by the data which suggests we should shun all animal protein. How do you feel about the conclusions this book draws?
Margery Bridstrup on February 14, 2008 at 09:57 AM
My father always said: spreadable cheese is inedible. He was referring to the ones coming in glass containers at least when I was a kid, and not to runny, ripe raw milk cheeses.
Funky on February 14, 2008 at 10:28 AM
I am reading the Omnivores Dilemma right now and I am riveted by this book. I have read the "China Study" and Joel Fuhrman's book "Eat to Live" and purchased "In Defense of Food" and will start that next. I can't hardly look at meat or dairy any more much less eat it,and i grew up in Wisconsin where it was at every meal. I still eat some cheese, but not as much as i used to. I have lost weight, gotten off my allergy meds,lowered my blood pressure, and only need to take my arthritis pills every 4th day, something i have taken every day for 20 years! I am a believer! I still eat processed foods occasionally, but have sworn off fast food and mostly eat whole foods. Its been fun searching for new recipies that fit my new eating regime.
Leslie Batchelor on February 14, 2008 at 10:32 AM
Michael -
I read your book, The Omnivore's Dilema and loved it! It is spreading like wild fire throughout my family. My mother has actually purchased it, something she rarely does, and is sharing it with her circle of friends.
Something I would add to your list of "...eating algorithms..."
Always prepare your food with love, gratitude, and joy in your heart not anger, frustration, bitterness, sadness, etc.... Enjoy the process of making the meal! I swear the food tastes better and is better for us.
And, one other thought: For many years, I have been thinking that we should stop labeling organic food as organic, but rather, we should label the non-organic for what it is - chemically enhanced, less flavorful, fewer vitamins and minerals, and yes, cheaper per pound, but a rip off for your health. So, organic is the norm and needs no label, and the industrially chemically enhanced gets the label!
Mary A. Poe on February 14, 2008 at 10:40 AM
I have enjoyed both your recent books and have learned a lot and heartily agree with your conclusions. Thank you so much for writing them. I come from a rural meat/potato/vegetable/some fish too/stay active background and still believe in that. You can spend more and eat less, but when I brought my 1/4 grass fed beef from our local butcher last year and also a Sonoma county spring lamb, I paid much less than organic meat would sell in any store. And it tastes like real food, brings back memories of what food should taste like. My concern is the rapid loss of land to cheap and cheerful housing, our lack of knowledge on how to grow, hunt or fish for and preserve our own food. What if we need to sometime? There is much to think about. Thanks for getting the wheels turning faster. Mary
David Eilers on February 14, 2008 at 11:05 AM
I thoroughly enjoyed 'The Omnivore's Dilemma' and look forward to reading "In Defense of Food". I particularly appreciated the granular details such as the daily cost of feeding cows at a 'modern' feed facility or the ingredients of 'state of the art' cattle feed.
An earlier post questioned how we distribute this information to the masses to help them understand the folly of the current food industrial complex. I think it's a reasonable question. The irony is that in part we have the current system because of our attempts to protect the masses. We pasteurized milk to solve the milk problems of the 19th century to protect the masses, we've added nutrients to bread to protect the masses, farmers can't butcher their own cows ostensibly to protect the masses, and we've added labels to products to educate the masses (has anyone calculated how accurate the labels really are? I've always wondered that). It seems we are victims of our own attempts to solve food issues.
One thread of thought that's most interesting to me is the effects of nutritional deficiency over time. For example, let's assume due to our Food Industrial Complex that the average american is not receiving the types of nutrition they need to regenerate their bodies correctly and, as a result, we produce nutritional deficient offspring. Could the results and conclusions of Pottenger's and Price's nutritional studies play out in a human population over successive generations? Has it already begun? If so, what would we expect to see, increased crime and violence, more mental issues, larger numbers of medical issues, great numbers of sterile people? Are we already seeing it?
Keep up the great work Michael.
Andrew on February 14, 2008 at 01:09 PM
I just read Joel Salatin's "Everything I Want to Do is Illegal," and I think he makes a very persuasive case that we can save agriculture only by getting the government out of it. The theoretical argument, as I understand it, hinges on two key points:
1) To think that we can craft a successful, nation-wide policy on agriculture is wildly presumptuous. It presumes that we understand the way natural systems work well enough to direct them effectively. But there remains, as you've often pointed out, a huge amount we don't understand. In light of this fact, the best approach for us requires a wide variety of approaches, some of which will succeed and some of which will fail. The farmers who succeed will stay in business and the ones who poison their land will be forced to give up. A monolithic, one-size-fits-all approach, on the other hand, presumes that government scientists can definitely figure out the best way to take care of the land, regardless of local variations. I don't think we understand natural systems enough to do that.
2) Government involvement will inevitably favor the largest producers, who can afford full-time employees devoted to studying and manipulating the regulations. Those producers can also afford to lobby for the regulations that will suit them best. Meanwhile, the family farmer has to take time out of his already extremely busy day to deal with red tape that isn't at all relevant to his small operation.
What do you think about Joel's case? Most environmentalists I know think that we can save agriculture only with MORE government involvement, not less. This is an important disagreement. If we hope to get rid of our current factory farming practices, it's critical that we know how to go about it. What do you think is the better way?
Robert Tessman on February 14, 2008 at 01:22 PM
I look forward to reading the new book. I couldn't put the Omnivore's Dilemma down, and I've pushed it on everyone i know.
One of the least known but more influential spiritual teachers of our time, an Armenian by the name of George Ivanovich Gurdjieff, had a lot to say on Food in general but in particular, on the deplorable American Diet.
Describing some of his experiences here in the early part of the 20th century, he spoke, for example, of the beautiful looking fruit he was able to find here (color, size, flawlessness, etc.), and yet their taste was just awful.
He refused to eat any meat that wasn't kosher here because he didn't trust it otherwise. He had many words to say about frozen meat and canned foods. The processes destroy something very essential about the food.
His teaching centered around the idea of eating. He spoke of three kinds of "food"; ordinary food, air, and impressions. All three being essential to life.
"If one knows how to eat properly, one knows how to pray."
That quote along with more of his assertions about the way we should eat can be found here: http://www.gurdjieff.org/howarth2.htm
BadGEAR on February 14, 2008 at 02:17 PM
Jack Lalanne hade two rules about nutrition
1) if man made it, don´t eat it
2) if it tastes good, spit it out
Kathy Leland on February 14, 2008 at 06:04 PM
I first fell in love with Michael Pollan's writing back when I read "The Botany of Desire." I frequently cite it to my college writing students as a perfect example of how a talented writer can take any subject, even something like the botanical history of apples, and make it interesting and entertaining. The most fascinating concept, to me, is Pollan's observation that plants don't just adapt to the changing environmental conditions of the earth -- they have also caused US to adapt to THEM, "trained" us in ways probably beyond our complete understanding. That such a symbiosis magically takes place between humans and plants gives me renewed hope for our future with plants.
I am teaching "The Omnivore's Dilemma" this semester in my Introduction to Literature class (somewhat bucking the tradition that only fiction can be literature), so I'm very excited to tell my students about this site and the great opportunity to correspond with Mr. Pollan. I'm sure they will have many questions! Young people today have a very quixotic and disconnected relationship with the food they eat: they understand and heartily endorse the merits of environmental awareness, they recycle, they don't waste paper, they don't litter -- yet at the same time, they live on fast food, can't identify more than 4 or 5 vegetables, and often have no idea what a really great peach tastes like. I think "The Omnivore's Dilemma" should be required reading in a lot of college classes. I hope I am starting a trend.
In addition to Pollan's books, I also very highly recommend "The World Without Us" by Michael Weisman, who poses a very thought-provoking question: What would happen to our planet if there were suddenly no more people inhabiting it? He answers that question in a variety of interesting ways, reaching conclusions that are at times almost comforting (the streets of New York will be quickly overrun with grasses and the opportunistic blossoms of the Chinese Empress tree, the elegant skyscrapers virtually disappearing in a relatively short time) to horrifying (gas wells in Texas, absent someone to monitor them, will burn and explode for decades, possibly centuries).
After reading this book and learning of the truly astonishing amount of plastic particles (called "nurdles") now resting on the ocean floor, littering the most remote reefs, sinking into the mud of the Amazon River, permeating the soil of every field on earth, I developed a chronic and severe case of plastic guilt. Every water bottle, every plastic fork, every bullet-proof piece of indestructible packaging now haunts me, because I know that although it will break down, none of it will ever actually biodegrade -- ever. Those grains of sand at the beach? 1/10th plastic nurdles.
So here are Kathy's Rules of Plastic, or at least a general concept I hope you will take with you:
Refill the same water bottle over and over instead of buying a new one, and never buy another one again. Make friends with a Mason jar or some other glass container.
Never accept a plastic bag for any purchase. First determine if you need a bag at all (often you don't), and if you do, choose a paper one. Best yet, of course, use cloth bags.
At the grocery store, don't put each produce item in a plastic bag. Why does a green pepper or a bunch of bananas or an avocado need to be in a plastic bag anyway?
At home, re-use plastic containers as much as possible, and start using recycled glass jars to store your food.
Recycle as much plastic as you can. Most grocery stores now have a recycle bin for plastic bags.
Think hard about how you can re-use all the plastic that does enter into your life despite all your best efforts. Get as much use out of it as you can. Be creative.
Finally, just remember: there's no such thing as being able to throw plastic away; once it exists, it exists forever.
Jason W. on February 14, 2008 at 07:14 PM
Michael, I'm halfway through "In Defense of Food" and just want to take a second to thank you for such a thoughtful, clear presentation of the terrible state of our food industry, the wicked irony behind the low-fat fads of the last several decades and how we as a society have arrived at the point in which we are today. I'm telling everyone about your book and it's making me think twice about everything I choose to eat from here on out. Congratulations, and thanks again.
Anne Nicolson on February 14, 2008 at 08:20 PM
I grow all my vegetables in my garden at home (New Zealand) and they taste good. In my garden I have a clothes line for drying my clothes. Is it true that americans collectively waste several nuclear reactors worth of energy each year drying their clothes? I'm sure American grandmothers didn't.
Kenneth on February 14, 2008 at 09:55 PM
Well, the corn section really got my attention. I once had a dog who was allergic to corn, (of course carnivores are not equiped to digest it), and I had a really hard time finding dog food for him. (this was before the advent of the BARF diet), he was miserable all his life, with skin problems and behavior problems that I now think may have attributed to his diet.
After I read omnivores dilemma, I took stock of my larder, and found that only my beer and a few other things hadn't been touched by corn. This is scary because: the monoculture, the non organic fertilizer, the pesticide, the genetic modifications.
Now I go to the store and think; all the meat is corn tainted, even the fish which is mostly aquaculture here in northern california, (more corn).
Thankfully, I have an organic garden. Now I'm considering adding some hens and rabbits, maybe even some pigs. I know a fellow who raises grass fed beef. Up to now I haven't bought from him because I thought the price was too high. Now I'll pay the premium and eat smaller portions. Also I found a source for organic chicken and livestock feed 30 miles from me.
Thanks Michael for the heads up.
Kenneth
Barbara on February 14, 2008 at 10:46 PM
It is so exciting to read the comments of other readers like me who have been motivated by your books to change the way they eat and think about food. I wish everyone would say where they live, (I live in Los Angeles), because it's interesting to see how widespread the concern about food has become. I had gotten lazy about going to the Farmers' Market, but after reading your book, I understand how important it is to support the local farmers and buy food that isn't transported over great distances. I also never quite got the fact that antibiotics are a regular part of a feedlot cow's diet and that they are all sick because they shouldn't be eating corn. At the Farmers' Market, I found a source of pasture fed beef that is a lot less expensive than what it costs at the big health food grocery store, (you know the one I mean), where I usually shop. The Farmers' Market isn't cheap, though, and I too am concerned about people who can't afford to buy high quality food.
Thank you so much for your books. They are not only informative, but engaging and enjoyable to read.
Barbara
Hilde Habraken on February 15, 2008 at 01:14 AM
In answering to Barbara's question, I want to assure her that the concern about food also exists in Europe. E.g., in Belgium, we have the so called "food teams", groups of people who organise themselves to buy fresh (organic) products from local farmers, comparable to the metropolitan buying clubs in the US. There are also two very interesting movies on this topic from Austrian filmmakers (English version available): "We feed the world" (www.we-feed-the-world.at), a movy about food and globalisation and "Our daily bread" (www.ourdailybread.at), a movy about the industrial food production and high-tech farming. Both are very confronting and not only show our alienation from food but also the devastating consequences of the current food industry on our environment, an issue that is also clearly described in "The omnivore's dilemma". I'm therefore very delighted to hear that that book will soon be available in other languages, and I will certainly promote it. Personally, I especially like Michael's advice to pay more, eat less, because I think that will not only be a solution to many health problems, but also part of the solution to the huge environtmental problems that exist today. I certainly look forward to reading his new book.
Gayle on February 15, 2008 at 05:52 AM
I have some ideas for John who is questioning how one can eat well on a lower income.
1. Cook your food from scratch. You pay more for all of that processing and convienence.
2. Learn to enjoy the less "popular" vegetables. A lot of them like collards, mustard greens, turnips, etc. are relatively inexpensive and delicious when cooked right.
3. Eat local and in season. There are seasons for the various foods (i.e. leafy vegs in the spring; peppers, tomatoes and corn in the summer; root vegs and squashes in the fall; eggs at Easter; turkeys during the holidays). They are abundant then and therefore less expensive. Plan your menus around and eat the heck out of them while in season. You can often get really good bargains at the Farmer's Market. Go later in the day when the farmers would rather sell their goods cheap than carry it all back home. Also, don't turn your back on bruised or less-than-perfect produce.
4. Put food by for the winter. Get a good book on canning/ freezing/ drying. It's what our Grandmothers did to both save money and have good nutrition during the cold months. If you can, grow some of your own food to put by. You can get a lot of mileage out of a couple of tomato plants (not to mention good ol' zucchini).
5. Eat ethnically (just like Mr. Pollan recommends). A lot of ethnic cuisines are the food of the common people and are structured around inexpensive ingredients. They save the expensive stuff for festivals and other special occasions. Look especially for the cuisines that combine a little bit of meat with a lot of vegetables.
Kathy Emerson on February 15, 2008 at 07:46 AM
The Omnivore's Dilemma and In Defense of Food are remarkable, illuminating and essential books--thank you! I also had the great pleasure of attending your talk at UC Santa Barbara several weeks ago; I live in Richmond, Virginia and was visiting my daughter in California. Virginia, as you very well know, is home to Joel Salatin of Polyface Farms. A food event entitled Broad Appetit will be held in Richmond on Sunday, May 18, 2008 (the event website will be functional in a few weeks--www.broadappetit.com--and will have complete details). Joel will be giving a talk at the event, "Dancing With Dinner." His talk will address the industrial global food system and how this system divorces people from their historical food relationships. According to Joel ..."Dancing with Dinner re-creates the imbedded, indigenous, community food system. It restores the butcher, baker, and candlestick maker to the village. That means socially, environmentally, and economically synergistic food systems. Indeed, it means a responding partner at dinner. Enjoy."
Thank you and Joel for leading the new food revolution!
Justin White on February 15, 2008 at 08:35 AM
Hi Michael,
Your writing has been very influential in changing my own approach to food and diet. Many thanks!
My question concerns Gary Taubes’ book, “Good Calories, Bad Calories.” In your new book, you call it a very important work, but then dismiss his main conclusions. This strikes me as cognitive dissonance to me. I’m wondering why you don’t accept his “alternate hypothesis” about the unique dangers posed by refined carbs and sugars, considering that he provides 450 pages of extremely compelling medical evidence to support his claims. Can you point to any facts he gets wrong? If not, then you have to accept the science that carbs make us fat.
By the way, a new article in the American Journal of Preventive Medicine provides similar skepticism about the dietary guidelines around low-fat diets (Marantz, Bird, and Alderman, 2008).
Thanks,
Justin
Asha Curran on February 16, 2008 at 02:40 PM
Hi Michael,
I am a big fan of your writing and have been for many years now.
One subject I have been positively longing for you to turn your attention to for most of those years is the subject of infant feeding. Every theme you address, particularly in "Omnivore's Dilemma" and "In Defense of Food"-- the creation of fake substitutes for real food, the glorification of the parts (ingredients) over the whole, the fracturing of the intimate family meal, the excess processing and "enrichment" that becomes necessary in the drive for profits--all of those themes and so many more are represented in microcosm when you look at the manufacturing and marketing of infant formula. All of the physical and psychological disorders that afflict Americans (with regard to the way we eat) don't just start with that first Big Mac in toddlerhood--they start at birth.
I'll continue to wait eagerly for you to turn your journalistic and intellectual insight to the infant formula industry just as you have to "nutritionism" and the meat, dairy, and industrial organic industries. :-)
zentrainer on February 16, 2008 at 04:28 PM
I love the rules of thumb for shopping! If my Grandma doesn't think it's food don't eat it! ha ha! My Grandmother had a cook book from her hometown in Scotland and I remember one recipe that instructed you to "go out to the cow...".
I saw Michael Pollan on the C-Span book channel and there was something said about the Whole Foods store that I didn't quite get. Whole Foods was in the process of building a store here at that time. I've been to the store since and as I walked around bewildered, employees would ask if they could help me find something and I just kept repeating "Yes, the health food section".
What an awful store!
I've been a Vegan for 20 years (though I do have a "dont' ask, don't tell" policy regarding dessert!). I tried eating meat for a bit a while back to save money, through Angel Food Ministries, but it just made me sick. I don't think I was meant to eat meat.
But it is more expensive to eat good whole foods and takes more effort I will say that.
Odd that I don't hesitate to feed fresh raw food to my dogs and cats no matter what the expense or hassle but for me?????
Chuck Pelto on February 17, 2008 at 12:39 PM
TO: Michael Pollan, et al.
RE: The Body Knows
Something I've learned over the 57 years on this sojourn is that the body knows what it needs and it will cause you to crave it.
Case in point [1] The Need for Salt
During a trip to a 'spa' operated by the US Army, a.k.a., the US Army Ranger Course, I noticed that I could not taste salt....that is until I had emptied the entire packet into my daily ration of food-stuff. Then I could taste it. This was because I'd been sweating so much of it out on the those little 'natur hikes' packing the patrol radio or machine gun in the Summer heat of Eglin AFB.
The lesson learned here is that if your body needs salt, you won't taste it in your food until you've added enough.
Case in Point [2]
I know when I'm coming down with certain types of 'bugs'; usually a viral thing coming on.
I crave lime juice. Usually from a frozen lime-juice confection. But I don't care for all that sugar. So, of late, I'll squeeze a whole lime into a glass and pour in some tonic water.
One might think it was the vitamin C business, but I've found that chewing 500mg C tabs doesn't provide relief of this craving. Nor sucking on an orange. Although they help. It's not nearly as 'satisfying' as the lime. I have no idea why the limes are so much more satisfying, but I feel infinitely better within a few minutes.
The trick is to properly recognize what it is your body is trying to tell you.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Bill White on February 17, 2008 at 12:49 PM
My favorite rule of thumb for how much to eat is "always leave room for an apple."
Chuck Pelto on February 17, 2008 at 12:49 PM
TO: Michael Pollan, et al.
RE: Additionally
Eating nutritiously is more economical than eating the garbage some outfits are trying to pawn off as food.
Get the raw materials and make your own. The savings in money far out-weights the amount of time you'll spend on it.
Personally, after a day of slaving over a hot keyboard, I like doing something truly constructive in the kitchen; making supper.
But, what you need is a 'good book' to help you along. I've got quite a library of such nowadays. But it wasn't always so. I've built it up over the last 20 years.
I recommend two sets of books, as starters.
[1] The 60 Minute Gourmet; two books. Excellent for diverse tasty meals in less than an hour; from decision to dinner.
[2] The Good Cook; a Time-Life series from the 80s. Thirty or so excellent books for teaching anyone how to cook all kinds of foods in all kinds of different ways. [Note: They are out of print, so you have to go to used book sources. Amazon is a good place.]
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[I didn't get to the top of the food chain by being a veggan.]