Omnivoracious: The Other Lands: An Interview with David Anthony Durham

David Anthony Durham's The Other Lands, book two of an epic trilogy, has just been published in hardcover. The first volume, Acacia: The War With The Mein, garnered critical praise and resulted in Durham receiving the John W. Campbell Award for best new writer. (I interviewed him about that volume back in 2007.) Durham came to fantasy from historical fiction, with three previous novels that received awards from the American Library Association and made the New York Times' list of Notable Books. He currently lives in the northeast U.S. and answered my questions via email while at "the Book Mill of Montague, Massachusetts. It’s an old mill, converted some time ago into a used bookstore, with an adjacent restaurant and a few other small independent stores. It’s a great place to come and sit, use the free internet, browse the books and generally be very pleased about living in picturesque New England."

Amazon.com: I'm curious if you had any of the normal difficulties writers have with second novels writing The Other Lands. I know you've written several other novels, but being introduced to a fantasy readership, creating a secondary world...what was your experience doing the follow-up?

David Anthony Durham: I’m not sure I know yet. A big part of that experience will depend on how readers respond to it. In terms of writing it felt like a natural continuation of what had come before. It is a fifth published novel (and I wrote two unpublished ones as well) so I don’t think the experience is anything like what a real sophomore effort is like. I got that out of the way before I managed to get published.

If it’s different it’s different because 1) I’m writing known characters instead of creating them all and 2) the things that happen are weighted by a long history that tethers them and 3) I knew that I wasn’t going to be writing an ending sort of ending this time around. The story very clearly continues with the third book. This is the first time I really began a novel knowing that. With Acacia: The War With The Mein, I hoped more books would follow, but I wrote it as if it could stand alone. With The Other Lands I knew from page one that I had to both tell a satisfying story and draw all the plot threads and complications that are going to reach right into the third book.

Amazon.com: How, too, was it to be a new writer again, winning the John W. Campbell Award? And do you find any differences between the audience for these books and your previous, mainstream novels?

David Anthony Durham: Being a “new writer” again was rather nerve-wracking. I didn’t take if for granted that my previous publications would impress anyone as I entered this genre. So in many ways that newness was genuine. Again, I had to be read by a new set of critics, bloggers and general readers that didn’t know my work. Again, I had to try to convince them that I had things of interest going on in my writing. For the most part I’m very happy with the way it worked out. At each stage and each jag in my writing direction I’ve found enough readers connect with what I’m doing to keep me going. It’s never a perfect match for everyone, but what ever is?

Winning the Campbell Award was huge. I absolutely was so, so happy. My entire family was with me and they were ecstatic too. I guess they know better than anybody how much of my life and time and energy goes into the writing. To get confirmation from within the SF community that I’m one of the group was just wonderful. To be part of the permanent record of SF writers is something I’m still shocked by every time I think it.

Differences in my audience… One thing I like about writing fantasy is that I feel a lot closer to the readership. I’m a lot more inclined to put myself out there to them, to write emails and chat online and to meet up like old friends at conferences. As a literary writer there was something of a barrier between writer and reader, a formality almost. That’s not me, though.

Amazon.com: One issue with trilogies is that the setting can sometimes get old for the writer. In The Other Lands the readers get to see a new continent. Did using this new setting affect the style or tone of the novel, and were you thinking of any real-world parallels?

Durham: It’s funny you say that about the setting getting old in a series. Intellectually, I know that there’s still so much potential for digging up new details and cultures and stories right within the map of the Known World. It’s an entire continent!

But it’s also true that in many ways the map of the Known World does feel drawn in. There aren’t the empty areas there used to be. That’s part of what pulled me across to the Other Lands. I liked the idea of journeying into the horizon, across the curve of my imagined world’s globe. I still like it that there’s much, much more of the Other Lands to be explored in the next book!

Amazon.com: To what extent, too, does the real world enter into your fantasy novels? Is there in effect a kind of translation or transformation going on, or is it less direct than that?

Durham: The real world is all over my fantasy. I don’t necessarily think about it when I’m writing, though. I mean not everything is intentional. But when I describe the core themes of the books in general terms--without talking about specific characters or creatures or battles--it’s very clear to me that I’m writing about the same sort of issues I’d be dealing with in an historical novel. In that regard I remain a grounded writer. There may be monsters, magic and ancient curses at play, but at heart these are books about politics and empire, historical legacy and revisionism, slavery and exploitation and occasional acts of redemption.

Amazon.com: In general, what would you say are the biggest influences on the Acacia Trilogy?

Durham: Interesting question. The things that pop immediately to mind are all over the place.

For one thing, I immediately think of all the books that aren’t influences – even though people assume they are. For example, I hadn’t read a word of George R.R. Martin or Guy Gavriel Kay when I wrote Acacia: The War With The Mein. I have since--lots, really--and they’re both favorites of mine now. But whatever ways my writing may be similar to theirs isn’t an issue of influence; it’s the result of some shared sensibilities and artistic leanings. And for every way that we might be similar I think there are just as many ways that we’re not at all.

And then when I think of writers that I do feel are influences they’re not usually influences because of imitation of style or approach to writing--which is what I think most non-writers tend to focus on. The influence is more in terms of the things I feel like I learn about life from them, and the ways they remind me storytelling is an important part of being human.

With that in mind, I see direct influence from Octavia Butler, Bernard Cornwell, Neil Gaiman, Frank Herbert, Ben Okri, Mary Renault, Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings film, The Epic of Gilgamesh, The Bible, current world politics and social situations, all the research I did for Pride of Carthage, my wife’s family, my experiences living overseas, raising my kids listening to NPR...and I see indirect influence from all the many writers of SF and fantasy, horror and crime that I’ve been reading so voraciously these last few years. In many ways, it’s the combined influence of all of them that continuing to help me grow as a writer.

I guess what I’m saying is that I think everything I read and see and experience are influences. Writers need to be open and observant to life; that’s where stories come from anyway.

Amazon.com: What can you express through fantasy that you cannot express through your mainstream fiction?

Durham: I think you can get at the same stuff in either genre. The themes of Pride of Carthage are cousins to the themes of Acacia: The War With The Mein.

One thing that feels very different to me, though, is that fantasy has the potential to connect with the earliest and most fundamental of human storytelling traditions. We began being human about the time we sat down to tell stories of gods and monsters, heroes and villains, shamans, wizards, dragons, etc. We may have complicated life since then, and may have other iconic traditions to look to, but I still think there’s something magical about reconnecting with tales from a time long, long ago. Real world politics may cast a shadow over my writing, but I can’t ignore that at some rather core level I’ve always wanted to ride a dragon. And since I’m only likely to do so in fantasy…

Amazon.com: Conversely, do you find it harder to achieve certain effects through fantasy?

Durham: I wouldn’t exactly say harder, but I would say there’s more often the potential for disconnect between me and some fantasy readers. For example, anyone deciding to read my novels Gabriel’s Story or Walk Through Darkness is going to come to it with an interest in African-American history, in slavery’s legacy, in hardship, and with an expectation of some literary trappings too--like extra attention to language. Very rarely did anyone pick those books up to find they absolutely were not what they were interested in.

I do think that some fantasy readers are looking for very different things from their fantasy than I am, though. Because of belonging to the genre, my books may be on the same shelf, categorized in the same way as other series that are really nothing like them. That can make for a perplexed or annoyed or hostile reader. I have seen some people respond negatively to Acacia because it wasn’t what they like the way they like it. Some seem to think that makes a book bad. I tend to think it just means that particular book isn’t the one for them, but it might be very good another reader.

That said, I don’t if my noticing this more is a feature of genre or if it’s because I’m generally being read by more people than I used to. More people; more reactions: that’s clearly a good thing.

Amazon.com: Is there a scene or section of the novel you are especially pleased with, either because it was effortless to write or because it took a lot of effort?

Durham: The scenes that I most often flip to when I pick up the book are towards the end. Any of the last few chapters, really. I think that’s because they’re both the culmination of all that’s come before them, and they’re also the launching point for everything that’s still to come.

Also, I enjoy it when the beasties come out. Maybe that’s not going to be as big a deal for readers as it is for me, but it’s quite something to give birth to new monsters. I like it. I feel it in bones when the freketes fly into view above the gathered army. When they slam their wings down and lift off the ground and the masses duck beneath them...for stuff like that I’m there in a way that I find particularly exciting.

Amazon.com: There's been a lot of talk lately about "plot" and the idea that literary fiction tends to not have "plot" because of an impression that in literary fiction story comes out of characterization. Whereas genre fiction, including fantasy, apparently has "plot" that's more readily identifiable as such because the characters are subordinate to plot. Do you think this is an accurate depiction? What does plot mean to you? How would you frame such a discussion?

Durham: Honestly, I’m weary of thinking of the differences and frictions between genre and literary fiction. I’ve been right in the middle of it for too long, and the debates around things like plot often seem less about substance and more about personal preference. I spent a lot of time doing all sorts of whitewater-related stuff. When I was raft guiding I enjoyed taking the masses down rapids. Unskilled and clueless as they were, it could still be a lot of fun crashing downstream, and there could still be some artistry in it. But I also liked whitewater canoeing, which requires fine-tuned skill and technique. It’s slower, and a lot more time is spent in eddies, looking upstream as much as down, having to communicate and think each coming maneuver out.

If you ask avid paddlers which one is better--purer, more of worth--you’ll get strong opinions, mostly in keeping with what each paddler personally likes best. But if you ask me which is better, I’d say they’re just different, with things to offer in either case. And then I’d add that I prefer whitewater kayaking anyway: requires a lot of technique, but provides a great vehicle for roaring down big rapids.

That’s about the way I feel about literary/genre and plot/character debates. True enough, non-linear character ruminations might be more the stuff of literary fiction. Throttle down plot progression may be more obviously the stuff of genre fiction. But that’s only if you’re choosing to focus on generalities. There’s plenty of overlap. Personally, I like to kayak along using elements of both. That’s what I try to do in my work.

Amazon.com: I know you're probably working on the third volume of Acacia. What do you see beyond that, in terms of possible forthcoming works?

Durham: Before me right now are the sections I’m writing for one of George RR Martin’s Wild Cards novels, to be called Fort Freak, and, yes, the third Acacia novel is in the works too.

After that I have many ideas, but it’s too early to know which will become the next project. It may be another Acacia based series, or it may be a historical novel. I plan to write a YA fantasy series at some point, but I’m not sure when that will come together. And I’ve also been toying with writing something set in the far future of Acacia, essentially sci-fi for my imagined world. Not sure what’s next, but I’m looking forward to finding out!